3DS and future revisions question for the techies

[downphoenix]

the resolution is low, but the graphics hardware pushing it is actually very good for a portable. Its better than what's on smartphones and PSPs currently.

I rather have a low res game look like this :

YouTube - Resident Evil Revelations 3DS Trailer

than a high rez game like this :

YouTube - FarmVille - iPhone | iPod touch - official video game launch trailer

[Neon Genesis]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

don't be a jew

Ah. Now I'm reminded why I never missed you.

Originally Posted by E6600

What it is the mystery? buy it when it is out and when it gets a revision buy it again. Life is not that complicated.

I already said I'm going to buy it. Loyal Ninty fanboy here. Instead of just thinking in the here and now I'm actually taking a few mental steps forward and asking what people think the future revisions will be. I mean, think about it. DS = 6 to 7 years. With 480p screens almost expected in smartphones in 2010, and a theoretical 3DS lifespan of 6-7 years (if future revisions are just aesthetic with no changes to the hardware) how will Nintendo expect to compete in 2016?

Originally Posted by Olorin

Maybe you should have another look at the specs:

Top Screen:3.53-inch widescreen LCD display, enabling 3D view without the need for special glasses; with 800x240 pixel resolution (400 pixels are allocated for each eye to enable 3D viewing).
Touch Screen:3.02-inch LCD with 320x240 pixel resolution with a touch screen.

Did you read my post? I forgave the low 240 resolution when I realized there are 2 screens of 240 horizontal pixels each (totalling 480p resolution), and the top screen would have to have another set of horizontal pixels under it/to the side of it to make the 3D, giving the grand total of 720 horizontal pixels needing to be processed at the same time. We don't see it as a single, 2D 720p screen, but that's how much the GPU has to churn out. Or so I conjecture. That's the reason I posted. Am I right in thinking that? The demo for the GPU chip was pretty awesome itself (for a handheld). Again, that's without 3D, and a second screen to render. But still.

3DS GPU can do impressive things- Destructoid

Originally Posted by downphoenix

the resolution is low, but the graphics hardware pushing it is actually very good for a portable. Its better than what's on smartphones and PSPs currently.

I rather have a low res game look like this :

YouTube - Resident Evil Revelations 3DS Trailer

than a high rez game like this :

YouTube - FarmVille - iPhone | iPod touch - official video game launch trailer

Point taken. That does look nice. That doesn't seem to be a low resolution though. That looks 480 to me. But I couldn't get the pixel displayed on that youtube vid. But yeah. I agree I'd take that over the high-res Farmville.

[tr1p1ea]

"how will Nintendo expect to compete in 2016?"

The same way they do now ... with good games instead of just good graphics?

[Spindel]

seriously 480p on a 3" display?

Do you really need it?

[Olorin]

Originally Posted by Neon Genesis

Did you read my post? I forgave the low 240 resolution when I realized there are 2 screens of 240 horizontal pixels each (totalling 480p resolution)

But the top screen has 400 horizontal pixels (800 if you count the 3D) and the bottom one has 320 horizontal.

[tr1p1ea]

Well Neon is just stating the resolution in a strange way.

Instead of saying vertical resolution he is saying there are 240 'horizontal rows' which is a bit ambiguous. ie; there are 240 rows of pixels (versus 800 columns (400 per eye)).

Stating 480p is however incorrect, since there is more to '480p' than just the amount of pixels.

[MasterSword]

Originally Posted by Neon Genesis

I already said I'm going to buy it. Loyal Ninty fanboy here. Instead of just thinking in the here and now I'm actually taking a few mental steps forward and asking what people think the future revisions will be. I mean, think about it. DS = 6 to 7 years. With 480p screens almost expected in smartphones in 2010, and a theoretical 3DS lifespan of 6-7 years (if future revisions are just aesthetic with no changes to the hardware) how will Nintendo expect to compete in 2016?

Compete with what? The PSP?

Did you read my post? I forgave the low 240 resolution when I realized there are 2 screens of 240 horizontal pixels each (totalling 480p resolution), and the top screen would have to have another set of horizontal pixels under it/to the side of it to make the 3D, giving the grand total of 720 horizontal pixels needing to be processed at the same time. We don't see it as a single, 2D 720p screen, but that's how much the GPU has to churn out. Or so I conjecture. That's the reason I posted. Am I right in thinking that? The demo for the GPU chip was pretty awesome itself (for a handheld). Again, that's without 3D, and a second screen to render. But still.

If the 3DS has a separate GPU for DS compatibility, it might use that to render the bottom screen. We just don't know at this point. On the DS the bottom screen was mostly relegated to menus, maps, etc. anyway except for touchscreen centric games, and now the top screen is bigger and 3D. So the bottom screen is likely to be even more neglected.


The GPU doesn't have to churn out the equivalent of a 720p screen. There's a big difference in the width of the screens. 720p is 1280x720, totaling 921,600 pixels. The 3DS has a 800x240 screen and a 320x240 screen, adding up the total number of pixels gives us only 268,800 pixels to display. That's less area than 640x480 (307,200 pixels). Rendering two separate screens instead of one may be harder on the GPU though.

[tr1p1ea]

How long until a competitor *miraculously* invents another autostereoscopic 3D device and displays it at a trade show a year from now as 'the *coolest* thing you've ever seen'?

what 'other' autostereoscopic 3D device are you talking about?

there's already phones, tv's and handhelds

[Neon Genesis]

Originally Posted by tr1p1ea

"how will Nintendo expect to compete in 2016?"

The same way they do now ... with good games instead of just good graphics?

I hope so. Like I said earlier, I've been a loyal Ninty customer since the SNES. The reason I was concerned was that this resolution choice for the 3DS seemed even more extreme than the much whined about 480p max resolution on the Wii back in '06.

Originally Posted by Spindel

seriously 480p on a 3" display?

Do you really need it?

3.5", if that makes it any better. Well that's what I'm not sure about. I guess to clarify why I'm curious, I should base this on my (not so) recent phone purchase. Last December I upgraded from the HTC Mogul to the HTC Touch Pro2. (Hell, I should have waited. I want the HTC Evo soooo bad now.) I went from the Mogul's 320x240 screen, to the Pro2's 800x480 screen (assuming the phones were on their side). The difference was.... amazing. It was really, really gorgeous. I don't use the Pro2 as a gaming phone, but even the simple packed-in games with the phone looked great too. After my honeymoon period with the phone, I got back to playing some DS games.... ouch. It was just a little painful to play. But I still enjoyed it, don't get me wrong. So I just thought that it would be weird to keep using phones or iPod touches or any other handheld device, then move to the brand-spanking new 3DS to play some Mario and just be shocked by the low res. *shrug*

Originally Posted by MasterSword

Compete with what? The PSP?


If the 3DS has a separate GPU for DS compatibility, it might use that to render the bottom screen. We just don't know at this point. On the DS the bottom screen was mostly relegated to menus, maps, etc. anyway except for touchscreen centric games, and now the top screen is bigger and 3D. So the bottom screen is likely to be even more neglected.


The GPU doesn't have to churn out the equivalent of a 720p screen. There's a big difference in the width of the screens. 720p is 1280x720, totaling 921,600 pixels. The 3DS has a 800x240 screen and a 320x240 screen, adding up the total number of pixels gives us only 268,800 pixels to display. That's less area than 640x480 (307,200 pixels). Rendering two separate screens instead of one may be harder on the GPU though.

Thaaaaank you. This was one of the things I was wondering about. I wasn't sure what the GPU had to push out since it's not a 720p screen, persay, but rather multiple lower res screens. This helps. Thank you.

As far as competing with something, I put my experience with my new phone above. I guess what I'm trying to convey is in 2010 or 2011, when I get the 3DS, will I have a similar reaction like my Pro2/DS scenario? And if that's just in 2010/11, what will it be like if the 3DS has to last for 6 years, competing with the phones/iPods of 2016. Hence, my original speculation if Ninty will use future 3DS revisions to slightly up the horsepower to upscale 3DS games at a higher res, similar to the much rumored but never revealed WiiHD.